How Practicing Gratitude Builds Deeper Connections and Relationships with John Israel – Ep 079

Many people nearing retirement focus on their portfolios but neglect one of the most important components of a fulfilling life—genuine human connection. Especially in today’s world, where negativity dominates the headlines and technology often replaces personal interactions, gratitude can help us build more meaningful relationships and improve our well-being.

In this episode, SHP Financial’s Derek Gregoire and Matthew Peck welcome keynote speaker, author, and professional gift giver John Israel—also known as Mr. Thank You. After launching a social experiment in which he hand-wrote five thank-you cards a day for a year, John uncovered profound insights into how deeper human connections are all about feeling seen, safe, and supported. His Mr. Thank You Project has since inspired thousands of people and companies to create cultures of gratitude and authenticity.

In our conversation, you’ll hear the science behind why it’s easy to focus on the negative, how vulnerability leads to stronger relationships, and how you can use gratitude—even in tough times—to unlock personal and business growth and foster deeper connections. John offers a refreshing perspective on the little things that can make a huge impact.

In this podcast interview, you’ll learn:

• Why gratitude is a learned skill—and how to practice it daily
• How handwritten thank-you notes transformed John’s personal and professional life
• The hierarchy of human connection and cornerstones of deeper relationships
• How to find meaning and purpose—even in life’s most painful experiences
• The ways SHP builds authentic, long-lasting client relationships through service and care

Inspiring Quotes

• “Gratitude is very distinct from happiness because you don’t need to teach a child how to be happy, but you do need to teach them how to be grateful.” – John Israel

• “If all we’re noticing and looking for is what’s wrong, we’re missing this huge opportunity to truly enjoy this amazing life that we’re working so hard to create.” – John Israel

• “The number one indicator of long-term lifetime happiness is positive relationships.” – John Israel

• “How long does it take us to feel gratitude from a previously painful experience? As long as it takes you to find the gift. And in every life experience, there is a gift, but it is your job to find it.” – John Israel

Interview Resources

• Mr. Thank You
• John Israel on LinkedIn | Facebook | Instagram | YouTube | X/Twitter
• The Mr. Thank You Project: A Journey to Elevate the Level of Gratitude on the Planet…One Card at a Time by John P Israel
• Brad Johnson
• Ralph Waldo Emerson
• Front Row Dads
• Robert Emmons
• UC Davis
• Bobby Orr

[INTERVIEW]

Derek Gregoire: Welcome, everyone, to another edition of the SHP Retirement Roadmap Podcast, obviously, brought to you by SHP Financial. We are super excited. We have really special guests getting outside of the stocks, bonds, market uncertainties, taxes, and going at a whole different route today. And so, first, we want to welcome John Israel to the podcast. Welcome, John.

John Israel: Thanks for having me.

Derek Gregoire: So, John, that nickname didn’t come from a clever marketing campaign. It came from, for everyone if you don’t know John, it came from a simple promise that he made, and that’s to write five thank you notes a day for an entire year, and to see what would happen if you focused on gratitude, connection, and humanity in every interaction. So, it started as a personal social experiment turned into a masterclass on human connection that has impacted millions of people around the world. Since then, John has helped thousands of business professionals rethink the way they build relationships through keynotes, coaching, and his book, The Mr. Thank You Project, what has become a go-to resource for companies looking to create cultures of appreciation and loyalty.

So, that’s heck of an introduction but, John, I guess, obviously, the whole premise around gratitude, thank you, funny story is our mutual friend of ours, Brad Johnson, a few years ago sent me a package of envelopes and thank you letters and said, “Hey, can you try mailing one out a day for 30 days?” And I actually did it, and I didn’t know it was from you. Also, it worked so well that I stopped doing it, and now I’m down to like one a year, so I need to get back into it.

John Israel: Isn’t that how we do things like, “Oh, this is working. Fantastic. I’m going to stop.”

Derek Gregoire: Yes, it’s too many.

John Israel: Totally. “Oh, this workout’s going great. Man, I should just ease up a little bit.”

Derek Gregoire: “I should change it up.” Well, thank you. Thanks for joining us. And I think we have a lot of clients and listeners and one thing that we really try to do here at SHP, I think my partner, Matt, Keith, the three of us in our team here, 50 plus employees, we really try to go over and above and build connections with our clients beyond just the financial statements, right? And that’s a huge goal of ours. But if you look at the world in general and, well, you know this more than anyone through your experiment, a lot of folks just kind of put their head down, go through the day-to-day, and don’t really ever take the time to, A, appreciate that day. It’s always what the worries are.

Or secondly, to give gratitude to just be grateful for people, for the sky, for the day God gave us. Like, there are things. You know what I mean? When you think about it, you know it better than we do, but people a lot of times forget to pause and be thankful for everything they have instead of we always focus on what’s wrong.

John Israel: Yeah, absolutely. And it’s a great point because gratitude is very distinct from happiness because you don’t need to teach a child how to be happy, but you do need to teach them how to be grateful. And the reason why is because, as human beings, we’re born with something called a negativity bias. And a negativity bias is something that was built into our DNA and our psychology from our caveman and cavewoman days when we’d live out in the jungle and we’d hear a growl behind a rock, we wouldn’t think it’s a cute little kitty cat. We would assume sabretooth tiger and we would run away and live to see another day. And that makes sense, right?

But here we are in modern-day America and we don’t have to worry about sabretooth tigers, but yet we still have that same proneness to look for the threats, to look for what’s wrong before we ever notice what’s right. And I think the reason why is because pessimism creates the illusion of safety. Pessimism creates the illusion of safety. What that means is if we think that because if I keep looking for what’s wrong, I’m going to find it and it’s going to keep me safe. Because if we know the dangers, we can avoid the dangers. But what’s the other side of that? If all we’re noticing and looking for is what’s wrong, we’re missing this huge opportunity to truly enjoy this amazing life that we’re working so hard to create, right?

So, a lot of people who are listening are either retired or soon to be retired, right? That is something to not take lightly, right? I think one of my biggest what really spurned this project, which to clarify for the audience. So, I started a social experiment in 2016 where I committed to hand-write five thank you cards every single day for 365 days in a row. And cards had to be handwritten. Everyday resets at zero so I couldn’t skip three days in a row and write 15 in a day. I couldn’t write more than three for any one person, right, meaning I couldn’t write 75 to my mom as much as she might’ve appreciated that.

Derek Gregoire: And it was five per day. So, it’s funny because, on the way to school, I bring my son to school this morning, he’s 16, and I was telling him about the pod, “Oh, you doing a podcast today? What are you doing it on?” I told him and I said, “Five thank you cards per day.” He goes, “Nope, you have that wrong. I bet it was five per week. Ask him. I bet it was five per week, not per day.” So, I’m going to have to prove Paxton wrong on this one.

John Israel: Yeah. And so, when you total that number out, it’s 1,825 thank you letters in one year’s time.

Derek Gregoire: Wow.

John Israel: And I don’t care who you are. Like, if you make a commitment like that to express love, gratitude, and appreciation every day, multiple times a day to different people, you will become a different person by the end of that year. And there was one other rule, and this is actually important to let the audience know, which is that for any and every day that I missed, I would donate $1,000 to charity. And that was important because I need accountability as I think we all do, and that helped me focus on making sure I followed through every single day. And the point with what you were just talking about, we live in a world that is so focused on shoving the negativity. It’s actually super easy to just be negative right now.

It’s super easy to look for and notice the things that aren’t working. And unfortunately, if our goal is to live a happy and fulfilling life, we have to take back control of our focus. And so, for me, this really was birthed out of a moment where I was an overworked, overwhelmed, highly successful businessperson who was just so unhappy I was ready to walk away from all of it, everything I had spent my career building. And so, this was really spurned on from my business coach at the time because I ran and still run to this day a professional gifting agency. So, we literally help people say thank you for a living.

So, the irony of ironies, I was like the most ungrateful gratitude salesman on planet Earth. And so, our mission, the company’s name is Mr. Thank You. That’s where the name comes from. So, our mission at Mr. Thank You is to elevate the level of gratitude on the planet. And my coach shared with me this quote, and this is what changed everything and I’ll swing this back to you guys. It’s by Ralph Waldo Emerson. And here’s what he says. “Excuse me, I cannot hear what you are saying because who you are speaks so loudly.”

And what I love and simultaneously don’t love about that quote is that it challenges us to be consistent with our words. It challenges us to not just say, “Hey, here’s what I care about. Here’s what matters to me,” but actually to prove it in our behavior. And the problem was, yeah, I am this guy who says he’s all about elevating gratitude on the planet but if you went out and asked a hundred people who knew John Israel and said, “Hey, what do you know about this guy?” back then in 2016, they’d probably say some nice things like driven, successful. But you know what they wouldn’t say? They wouldn’t say grateful. They wouldn’t say appreciative and they certainly would not say happy to describe me.

And so, I thought, how can that be? How can I be this guy who says he’s about elevating gratitude on the planet, but I don’t live that out? So, really this project was birthed out of this determination to live my values every day for a year and just to see what would happen. And I didn’t expect it to, but it turned into something a lot more.

Matthew Peck: And now, and sorry to interrupt, Derek. So, in some of the takeaways that you took from that experiment, how much was a surprise to you? I mean, knowing that you were in sort of the gratitude business, how shocking were the results?

John Israel: Well, so in the gratitude business, right, so my job is to help a company thank their clients, right? Send a nice gift, thank their employees. So, in ways, there’s like a monetized value of sending a gift. So, there’s kind of a, I don’t want to say a give-to-get because that’s not the case but it is something to note that when you give something, there’s a desire to reciprocate. And so, I think, like conceptually, I understood that. What I didn’t expect was how much better every relationship I had would become because of this, like in an exponential level. As an example, right? So, Derek, one thing that we had talked about before we started was the Front Row Dad community, right?

So, the Front Row Dads, for anyone who doesn’t know, it’s for entrepreneurial dads and we get together a couple of times a year and mastermind about being better husbands to our wives and fathers to our children while we run our businesses. And so, this was a really special group. So, I had gone to a few events and I had done my thing and I had written thank you cards to the guys that I had met based on the conversations that I would have. So, first off, what it taught me to do was before I can ever write you a thank you card, I have to know you at a deep level. And so, what it caused me to do was to be actually very intentional about my conversations.

And that’s the interesting thing. I believe we have two types of listening that we do in conversations. There is selfish-level listening. And selfish-level listening is where we listen from the lens of, “How is this relevant to me? What can I get out of this relationship potentially?” And I don’t know if you, guys, ever been in a conversation where you’re talking to somebody who’s running everything through the selfish level lens of listening, where you can tell they’re prospecting you by like the questions they ask and how you answer. Then their eyes start looking around the room for someone else to talk to who might be of greater value.

Derek Gregoire: Yeah, they’re looking behind you. Yeah, I know exactly what you’re talking about. It’s the worst, the most frustrating thing.

John Israel: Right. And that feels disgusting. The other type of listening is what I call servant-level listening, which is a way of listening from the lens of what do I need to know about this person to be of the highest level of service. And so, there are three questions I learn to ask people in every conversation. Number one is, what’s your story? “Hey, tell me about your story. How did you get here?” So, for the Front Row Dad retreat, I’m just saying, “Hey, so you run a business and you have a family. Tell me about that. What’s your business? How’d you get into it? And tell me about your wife like how’d you meet your wife?” Then when people start to tell you their story, they’re inadvertently starting to tell you about their values and their decision-making process, why they do certain things. You can learn a lot about a person just by understanding what’s gotten to them to where they are today.

Second question is about significance. So, what do you love about what you do? What are you excited about? What are some of your goals in life? And I know as financial service providers like that’s an important question that you all ask every client, right? Because it’s not just, “Well, let me just put you in what program I think is best,” but it depends, right? What matters to you? Because if you know what is intrinsically motivating to somebody, you really learn about what’s going to get them to act and get them to move and also what’s going to get them excited about the pathway that they’re on.

And third question is about struggle. So, story, significance, struggle. Struggle is, “Hey, what’s the hardest thing you’re dealing with right now? What’s the biggest thing you’re afraid of?” It’s kind of an uncomfortable question sometimes to ask people, and I don’t always ask it as directly as that. Sometimes I might say, “Hey, what’s the biggest hurdle you’re trying to deal with in your business?” or, “Hey, what are you struggling with right now?” And when people share that with you, they’re starting to share with you about what keeps them up at night, what they’re afraid of. And if whether I’m in professional sales or I’m just talking to a friend and I know what they’re struggling with, man, they’re giving me the tools of how to be in a relationship with them.

Because they’re basically saying, “If you can help me with these things, I want you a part of my life.” And so, I would ask these three questions to everybody that I’d meet, and then it would help me write them a really good authentic thank you card. And I could say, “Hey, man, I just so loved our conversation at the retreat and you sharing with me about how long it took you to finally figure out how to run your business. And more importantly, man, I just loved hearing the story about your wife and how you guys fell in love and how you met. And I just think that that’s so admirable. And I just want to say thank you so much for being vulnerable and willing to share with me some of those things that you’re struggling with because, man, I struggle with some of those things as well. And it’s just great to know that I have a friend who’s going through the same things as I am.”

And then I would send a card like that out to people and they would just reach back like in tears, like, “Man, thank you. You were really paying attention.” And so, it became this conscious process for me about how I meet people because throughout our lifetime we’re going to meet approximately 50,000 people. That’s what research tells us. Very few of those are going to become connections and relationships, and even fewer of those we’re going to have for longer than a weekend, and even fewer we’re going to have for years and even fewer for the rest of our lives.

And so, for me, all the research tells us that the number one indicator of long-term lifetime happiness is positive relationships. If that’s true, what are we doing to be very intentional about the types of relationships that we’re building in our life? And so, that was a very unexpected thing. I didn’t know that I was going to be learning a process. I was just trying to get a thing done because I had to pay $1,000 if I didn’t, initially. And so, yeah, that and so much more but that was kind of I think the opening part that was like it taught me a framework of connection, which was very unexpected.

Derek Gregoire: You think of like how people are, in general, like the mindset of everyone you know of, a little bit off topic, but how it’s always like if this then I’m going to be happy or if I get married or if I buy a house, or if I’ve built success. We tried to tell our younger advisors here when we started out, we had no money and we’ve been able to build a decent business. We’re not saying we’re by any means wealthy but compared to like these billionaires out there. The point is I would say that growth does not change my happiness. You know what I mean? If someone thinks they’re going to be happy just by hitting these next check marks or the next thing that they buy or the next car or the next house, you’re never going to hit that point.

And so many people are afraid to be vulnerable that they never let themselves go to be able to get to that point, to have connections, especially men. Men having connections with friends, sometimes it’s very service level and you know your friends that you can kind of go deeper on and that connection is huge. And so, for me, faith is a foundation of my life, friendships, family, obviously, the Fs. But basically, there’s so much more and gratitude comes… It should be in that balance, should have a ton of gratitude as well. But sometimes I’m the same way, John. I’ll sometimes be in a conversation and I’m like, “Ah,” I just was one of those people who just wasn’t paying attention or wasn’t dialed in like I should be and I was one of those people that I can’t stand when I meet for the first time that doesn’t. So, I’m guilty of that at times. You know what I mean?

Matthew Peck: Well, I think we’re all human. I mean, I did love, John, about the idea of like knowing people’s story. I used to joke around about being in finance. It’s funny, I was actually a history major, right? So, I joke around because it’s like because I know history a little bit and because I know geography and maps and because I’m a sports fan, I love meeting people from all across America, much less the world like California. Whoa. Like, we were talking offline, like, you live in Texas and you have a farm, right? Like, what’s that like?

I mean, I think that’s such a great, I mean, all of them, again, struggle in significance too, but just like the idea of learning someone’s story because everyone has a story to tell. Everyone has a background. Derek was mentioning about the business that we grew. I mean, that obviously has a story to itself. And understanding what formed people and what shaped people always was fascinating to me.

John Israel: Well, and you’re hitting on a really valuable point, which is, and I couldn’t have told you these words during the project, but now that it’s been over the last eight years and I get to speak to a lot of companies and organizations and have conversations and people say, “I relate to that,” or, “Oh, here’s how that looked for me,” what I learned is that there is a framework to how and why people get and stay in a relationship. And so, I call this the hierarchy of human connection. And so, if any listeners are married or you are in a significant relationship or you want to get closer with your kids or you’re still running a business and you want to just have better culture with your team, this is hyper-relevant.

And when I share this with you, we can actually play with it a little bit and look at these from different lenses because these four parts, the hierarchy of human connection, you can look at your best relationships and I can almost guarantee, one, multiple or all of them are in existence. And if you looked at the opposite, which is a relationship that fell apart, I can guarantee you can pinpoint one or multiple of the areas where it fell apart. So, here’s the structure. We call this the hierarchy of human connection: safe, seen, significant, supported. Safe, if you imagine like a pyramid, this would be like the base level. For any relationship to work, we have to have a basis of psychological safety, which is I can be myself around you or, as a basic level, I know you’re not going to hurt me, right? Like that’s a fundamental basis of a relationship.

Derek Gregoire: I’m a little nervous sitting next to Matt right here. If I say the wrong thing, he’s going to backhand me.

Matthew Peck: Yeah. We’re still working through things. That’s why you’re on this podcast, John. This is actually not just a podcast. This is an intervention between us three. So, this is great. Keep on going.

John Israel: That’s funny. But safety also means psychological safety, which means I can be imperfect around you and you’re not going to use my weaknesses against me. That’s super important, especially for somebody who’s in a marriage and you know sometimes when things are harder where you talk to friends who are struggling and you can see just how the couple speaks to each other and the unkind words or the maltreatment. And there’s just not safety to be themselves in a relationship because if I am, then they’re going to use that against me. That’s a very basic, fundamental level of any friendship or relationship. So, safety is number one.

Number two is seen, right? So, to be seen is to be known for people to know who you are from a 360-degree view. That’s why I like those three questions, story, significant, struggle because you’re getting to look at somebody’s life from multiple different angles. One of the great stories I share in the book is about I was boarding a plane and before I got on the flight, I noticed that pilots were sitting outside at the food court eating some food. So, I walk up and I say, “Hey, do you mind if I sit down?” And they’re like, “Sure.” So, I sit down with these pilots and I go through the questions. I say, “Hey, I’m curious, I’ve never been a pilot. What’s it like to be you? What’s your story? How’d you get into this?”

Both of them had a story. “Back when I was a kid, I got fascinated with airplanes, and then I got into the Air Force and I did that for two terms, and then I got out of the Air Force. I want to keep this dream alive. And so, I became a commercial airline pilot.” So, these guys were essentially living their childhood dream. Pretty cool. Second question, “What do you love about your job? What’s the best part about being a pilot?” “Well, man, all the free travel, places we get to go.” And then one guy kind of puffs his chest up and says, “You know, a lot of people like to brag about having the best corner office in the tallest building, but let me tell you, nobody has a better corner office than we do at 30,000 feet.” I thought that’s pretty cool.

Third question, struggle. “What’s the hardest part about being a pilot? What’s the most difficult part about being you?” The tone gets somber and they start sharing about all the things they miss back at home, birthdays, anniversaries, special events. And then one of the guys gets all excited and says, “Not this year. This is the first time in 12 years that I get to be home for Christmas day.” And my heart breaks for this guy, right? And when I write my thank you card to them, when I eventually take off, I listed all of these things out.

And I said, “I’m sure it’s strange to receive a thank you card from a passenger, but as I was just boarding the plane, I was thinking about my own issues and how I’m going to miss my family while I’m gone. And then I realized, this is what you do every day for your job. I can’t imagine how many birthdays, anniversaries, things you’ve missed and sacrificed, all that to have a bad landing and people complain about it. So, whether you hear it enough or not, I just want to say thank you.” That’s what it means to be seen, to have somebody who cares enough about you to look at you from multiple different angles, to really understand who you are at a deep core level, and to acknowledge you for it and to highlight the positives. So, that’s what it means to be seen.

Significant is to feel like our life matters. Again, so we talked about a negativity bias. That goes just with every relationship. If you take one of your kids or you take your spouse, you take your parents, you can highlight everything they’ve done wrong. You remember all the things, all the times they broke a promise, all the times that they did something you shouldn’t have done. And it’s so easy to highlight those and to notice them, and to remind them of it. But if we have people in our lives that remind us of the positive things, don’t you love being around people who just make you feel good? Like, isn’t it interesting how when we’re around some people, they pull out the worst of us and some people pull out the best? Why is that? Because there’s something about people who acknowledge and appreciate us for the good that we do, that we just want to be around them more.

And the last one is support, which is why are we in relationships in the first place because we need support if we’re struggling or we’re having a hard time. I spoke at a real estate conference and a woman comes up to me and she says, “I had gallbladder surgery and I live in a condo townhome community, and one of my friends I said, ‘Hey, I’m going to have surgery pretty soon, and I was wondering if you could work a meal train out for people to bring by some food because I can’t leave the house after surgery.’” And her friend says, “Well, why don’t you just do Uber Eats?” And you could see this person’s heart break.

And I think this is one of the problems happening in society, right? There’s this big concern about AI making us replaceable but I think actually we are the ones who are making ourselves replaceable by how we’re treating each other and choosing to delegate, showing up for people the technology rather than actually doing it ourselves. And the woman says, “And the worst part of it was I saw her walk her dog past my apartment door.” And I think we can say these things on a surface level and be like, “That’s terrible. Why would someone do that?” But don’t we also do that in our own ways by ignoring and not paying attention to subtle calls for help of people around us?

So, to back up a little bit, safe, seen, significant, supported. I bet if we look at the relationships that we care about the most that we want to keep around, they probably fit one, if not all of those categories. And those that have fallen apart at some point, probably there’s a way that they dishonor one of those categories.

Derek Gregoire: Yeah. I know it’s crazy, John. I know both listeners, Matt and Keith, they know how I feel about my dad but it’s amazing. I think he might have been the originator of this whole process, but I’ve always been fascinated by how, even like I was walking with some friends from church this past week and they were like, “Your dad just shows up. He creates a different experience every time he shows up.” And he always remembers like one of my friends played in the NHL and my dad sent him this like card of his and this nice pack, “Just thinking about you.” And then next person, he heard they’re having surgery, a friend of ours from our town that he barely knows and, “Your dad made this shepherd’s pie and dropped it off at our house.”

And always like these little, same thing, he is very curious, way better than I am at this, by the way. I probably fell further from the tree than I should have, the apple. But he’s always looking for ways to just show up for other people, making them feel good about themselves. And in turn, you notice everyone wants to be around my dad. You know what I mean? Because they have that feeling and sometimes you don’t think about the psychology of all that and, trust me, he’s not doing it to get that but it’s just natural. It’s naturally how things work. And, also for him, the downside is everyone in the family goes to him with any major concerns or he does have the downside of having to deal with all the issues because he’s always been the one to support them during the trials. You know what I mean? So, it’s a weird fundamental process when you look at how that’s happened over my lifetime and just seeing it play out.

John Israel: Well, I love that. Thanks for sharing. Because I think there are people like that in our lives that we can point to and be like, yeah, like they did it. Like, did they read some book? And I think that for a lot of them, it’s just maybe how they grew up or maybe something that they didn’t have that they want to provide for other people or maybe a great example they saw. I mean, who knows how we all become who we are? But that’s a beautiful example, and I think for many of us, who, again, the world that we live in isn’t pulling for community right now.

Derek Gregoire: Yeah, I mean…

John Israel: The world, the politics is pulling for attention, and what they know, and I’m just going to keep beating this drum, what people know, what social media knows, what every marketing agency knows is that we’re more prone to look at the worst things on the internet than we are to look for the good things.

Derek Gregoire: Of course.

John Israel: It’s the fact, right? You wake up in the morning, you open your phone, you look on social media, and they’re like, here are the worst things that happen on planet Earth in the last 24 hours. Good luck at work.

Derek Gregoire: And then the news has all the…

John Israel: And don’t bring any of this with you.

Derek Gregoire: The news is like flashing red everywhere and the market’s collapsing and it’s like, whoa, whoa, whoa.

John Israel: And it’s hard not to feel that way. And so, here, and this is where I think I got lucky. Honestly, I don’t think I was expecting it to be this impactful, but just understanding that fact, how I feel at any given moment is up to me. And so, the hardest question that I had to learn how to answer this year or during that project is how do you be grateful when you don’t feel like it?

Derek Gregoire: That was my next question was how do– like, for you personally, I was going to ask you as well, how– like, when you went through that process, like, did your mindset just change? Did you just feel happier? Like, explain that process, because you went through it for a year. You obviously lived it out. Like, did you literally feel a change in your being, like during that process? And then how, when you are having those days where you’re just like, this sucks, this– whatever the weather, this, that, how do you get yourself out of it?

John Israel: Yeah, well, I think that– so for starters, yeah, I mean, I still got the flu and I still wrote my five cards. My wife was giving birth in the hospital or actually at home, we had a home birth, and still, I was writing cards while she was in labor. It was pretty funny. So, like, no matter what, I was doing it. And it was this fascinating thing, because I didn’t want to cheapen it. I didn’t want it to be generic. Hey, thanks for the thing. Boom. Like, three seconds. This was actually a strange fact. I did this math afterwards. It took me an average of about 90 minutes a day to do the project, because I wanted every card to be actually thoughtful. And when you total that out, 90 minutes times 365 days, it was 22 and a half straight 24-hour days spent writing– that’s almost a month, 24-hour days writing thank you cards. That’s crazy. So, at a minimum, it was a muscle to build, right?

Here’s the thread of the lesson I’ll share with– I’ll break everything down from the entire project in the definition of gratitude that I learned. This is from Dr. Robert Emmons from UC Davis. Here’s what he says, “Gratitude is the emotion one feels when receiving a gift or experiencing something as a gift.” That makes a lot of sense, right? If somebody gives you a gift unexpectedly, it’s not even your birthday, how do you feel? That joy, that excitement, that, in essence, is gratitude.

The other part of that definition though, is the experience of something as a gift. What does that mean? That’s how you choose to interpret what you’re going through or something that happened. And an example that we can all relate to is maybe the first time that we ever fell in love, right? I remember this little girl, she was 12, we were 12 years old. I was holding her hand at the mall. And I’m like, “We’re going to get married one day,” right? And then she breaks up with me and asks out my best friend on a date. Like, how am I supposed to feel in that moment, right?

Like, I remember taking the coldest shower of my life and feeling like the world is over, right? We can relate to something like that. And in the moment, it feels so painful, but yet with time and perspective, I can look back on that experience and say, I’m actually really glad that happened. Because that happened, I learned a lot about myself. Because that happened, actually, I wound up meeting somebody else that I got married to and I started a family with. So, I can actually, in the current modern day, feel gratitude from this previously painful experience. And so, the question becomes, how long does it take us to feel gratitude from a previously painful experience? And the answer is, as long as it takes you to find the gift.

Derek Gregoire: That’s crazy.

John Israel: And in every life experience, there is a gift, but it is your job to find it. So, just the point is that awareness was life changing, because this year was no short– every normal problem I get still happened. I still had cancellations in our business, which every business deals with. We had team attrition, people leave, and that doesn’t feel good. My wife and I still get in arguments from time to time that doesn’t feel good. So many things didn’t feel good, but yet for me, for the first time I had this tool, which is to understand that, hey, inside of this experience, whatever I’m going through, there’s something good to come of it. I’m the one who needs to figure that out. And the moment I figure that out, that gives me control over how I feel in any given moment. That is powerful.

Derek Gregoire: That’s huge. The perspective is good.

John Israel: Whether you’re talking about your personal life or your professional life.

Derek Gregoire: But even, it’s biblical, right? You think about like, it talks about how these things that are going to be thrown our way, but it’s a blessing. And I always look at things, look, and I wish I had known, like you said, if you go through each moment and I don’t– again, this is something I could, I’m sure I want to take good use out of this conversation. But I remember when I was in college, from when I graduated, I was a finance major. And this moment was so clear to me, I was like, I had four interviews at this firm in Boston. I was going to be driving to the city every day. Not that there’s anything wrong with that.

And after the fourth interview, they said, “Oh, I’m sorry. We gave it to someone else.” Like, you didn’t get a job. and I was crushed. Went back to work with my dad, temporarily plastering, doing drywall plastering, if you know what that is. Not an easy job. I’m like, man, here I am. Went to college, thought I was going to be able to get into the finance world, and then kind of slowly made my way into a company. Met Matt and Keith. This is 2002. By 2003, we started this company. And here it is 22 years later. So, obviously I’ve seen that for years, the blessing that was, but in the moment, it was like earth shattering, you know what I mean?

John Israel: Right.

Derek Gregoire: Like, and I wish, I can go back in those situations as they come, and this is something we can all do going forward is take what’s coming at us and how does that– what good can come out of that? Like, how do you perceive it? You know what I mean? Sounds like that’s…

John Israel: Yeah, absolutely. And that’s a beautiful example by the way. Thanks for sharing that, because I think that– so I have a small coaching practice myself where I’ll work with individual business owners to help them kind of like navigate life balance, right? Because it’s hard when you’re running a big business. And so, if someone is at faith, there’s three questions I ask them when they’re in a really tough spot, just kind of like what you’re talking about. So, let me, I’m curious, I’m going to ask you these questions like you’re a client. So, do you mind answering?

Derek Gregoire: Sure.

John Israel: All right.

Derek Gregoire: Let’s do it open book. Depends on, yeah.

John Israel: So, do you believe God is good?

Derek Gregoire: Yes.

John Israel: Do you believe God is sovereign, that he rules over everything?

Derek Gregoire: Of course.

John Israel: Do you believe God makes mistakes?

Derek Gregoire: No.

John Israel: He doesn’t. If those three things are true, there is a reason that you’re going through what you’re going through. There’s something here for you. And I think that, yeah, whether we can get that immediately or not, but the moment we can actually grasp that as like truth, it actually is very helpful. We may not know the answer, we may not know the gift right now. And by the way, people have challenged me on this. I spoke at an event. I got invited to speak to a group of widows and their children. It was a retreat for recently widowed moms. Talk about like a heart-wrenching experience. I mean, all of these people, I mean, they showed up with anything from infants to like 20-year-old kids. And there was a room and I was talking to them. And I was sharing the story and a girl stands up during Q and A and she says, “How do I find the gift in my dad dying?”

Derek Gregoire: That’s powerful.

John Israel: I mean, you talk about sucking the wind out of a room, I mean, and I thought about it, because I don’t want to just give her a trite answer. And I said, it can almost seem disrespectful to even consider that question, right? Meaning, where’s the gift in my dad’s death? We don’t even want to ask it because it seems like we’re going to dishonor his memory. And I’m not trying to tell you there’s a gift in your dad’s death. What I’m telling you is there might be a gift of something that comes out of it for you that would’ve never happened. Otherwise, as an example, maybe after your dad’s passing, it’s actually caused your family to become closer than they’ve ever been. Maybe because of your dad’s passing, it’s going to require you to help out your family more and for you to get a job earlier in life than all of your friends, which is going to cause you to grow up and have an advantage in how you show up in the world later in life. And I’m not saying that you need to know that right now. I’m just inviting you to be open to the idea that in some way, shape, or form, something will happen for you in your life out of your dad’s death that you can be grateful for. Not that he passed away, but because of the gift that he left for you.

And that’s what I try to go back to is as hard as it is, and it doesn’t necessarily even mean that there’s a gift, like in a neatly wrapped bow. Sometimes it’s just the ingredients of a gift. Sometimes it’s an attitude shift that you would’ve never experienced otherwise, because can either of you guys agree that some of the greatest character qualities you possess have come from going through the hardest times of your life?

Matthew Peck: Absolutely. Yeah, you can embrace adversity. I mean, obviously not to that level, not that I thankfully have not had to put up with that or experience that. But it’s similar to, you can’t control what happens to you. You can control your reactions, right? And you can embrace adversity, embrace the ability for those types of things. That’s where iron is forged, is in the fires.

John Israel: Yeah. Yeah, and so, I think that’s probably one of the most powerful takeaways is just realizing that gratitude truly is a tool for healing and for transformation and for growth, is that if we can be open to the lessons and the gifts, and it’s okay to not feel that right away and it’s okay to not ask that question immediately if someone passes or something really challenging happens, but purely to be open to it because we’ve also experienced people in life who are still complaining about something that happened 20 years ago. And they haven’t moved on and they don’t have gratitude in their heart and it’s affecting other areas of their life.

Derek Gregoire: Yeah. Look at that political landscape.

John Israel: What was that?

Derek Gregoire: Look at that political landscape of like, no matter what side you’re on, whether it was two months ago or four years ago or, you know what I mean? Like, the whole process divides people and there’s no– what’s the word? No sum in, no sum game?

Matthew Peck: Oh, zero-sum game, either winning or you’re losing, there’s nothing…

Derek Gregoire: What’s that going to get anyone? So, yeah, similar process, similar comparison.

John Israel: Absolutely.

Derek Gregoire: So, as we kind of wrap up this, and this has been awesome. Thank you. Your perspective’s amazing. What would you say? I’ve heard some of the story of the pilots, I know the waitress story with the Front Row Dads group. And that might be the best. Is there like a story that, like, worth going out on that was through your experience or just even after through coaching or different things that you’ve experienced? Is there one story that like, man, I got to share this, that you think would benefit?

John Israel: Yeah. So, this actually happened after the fact. So, this isn’t even in my book, because it happened after it was already published. So, here’s an interesting stat I’ll ask you guys about. Out of writing all those thank you cards, right, 1,825 in a year, what percentage of people who received a card from you do you think responded about it?

Derek Gregoire: Probably like…

John Israel: Like, what percent do you think?

Matthew Peck: 25%.

Derek Gregoire: 40.

John Israel: 40%. So, the answer is 10%.

Matthew Peck: Wow.

John Israel: So, when you think about that, it’s roughly about 185 people out of 1,800. Now, so in ways, that’s a little disheartening, right? Because you’re like, and there was a moment, I wrote about this in the book because it was this experience of like, does anyone care about this? I’m just beating my head against a wall here, does this matter? And it was such an important point because I was realizing that this had suddenly become about me and that was a huge awareness, which is the– because when you talk about the terms, gratitude, another similar word is generosity.

Generosity is when something is given freely without expecting anything in return. And so, most people, if I were to say, hey, do you think you’re a generous person? We’d all say, yeah, for sure. Well, let me know if you guys can relate to this, right, where, let’s say you give a really nice gift to somebody and maybe send them a bunch of money for their wedding and then they don’t even respond. How does that feel?

Derek Gregoire: Yeah. If you’re being that generous, you wouldn’t be expecting their response. So, you’re not…

John Israel: You would think so, but doesn’t mean it’s alive, though?

Matthew Peck: Oh, yeah, of course. Oh, right, absolutely. The nerve of that person.

John Israel: Yeah. It’s like, did I do something wrong? Are you upset with me? And then it’s like, “How dare are they? I can’t believe they don’t say anything back.” And we get so distraught. And then here’s this interesting thing that happens throughout life, right, where the next opportunity to play generously, we’ll say, “Okay, I’ll play generously, but a little bit less.” And then maybe I’ll play generous again, but a little bit less and then a little bit less. And then we’re playing this tit for tat. What have you done for me lately, kind of experience?

And if we’re not careful, we can actually transactionalize our life because the moment we need to receive appreciation for the good that we do is no longer generosity. We have transactionalized the relationship. And there’s a point in your project where I realized I had done that with virtually every relationship, even my marriage with my family. So, that number, by the way, 10%, that even equated to my family’s response. So, I sent them out to– I’m from a big Catholic family, right? Five kids, all of them are married. I sent them to everyone, their spouses, my parents, and that same number replied, 10% replied, my one sister.

So, after the project is over, by the way, that includes my parents, just to mind you. Your project is over. My dad has been suffering with Parkinson’s disease at this point for about 18 years. He’s pretty far along. He’s bedridden. I go visit my mom in San Diego, California, where I’m originally from, and she’s just beside herself. She’s just super stressed out. We’re having a private conversation at the dinner table and she says, “John, you sent me a letter last year. And I so deeply wanted to appreciate it, but I just can’t because I’m in so much pain here, taking care of your dad by myself.”

It was probably one of the first times I actually listened to my mom and I just said, “What do you need? How can I help?” And she just shared, “Hey, there’s five kids. I would love if all of you came and watched Dad for a week so that I can get some respite and go do something for myself.” And I said, “You got it, whatever you need.” So, I jumped into businessman mode and I got everyone on a conference call. I’m like, “We got to help out mom. Everyone pick a week.” And we all did. And I got to spend a week with my dad. And then when my final sister spent her week with my dad, he passed away that weekend. And so, when I think about that experience, I’m just reminded of number one is you never know what someone’s going through, so you can’t take it personal if they don’t say anything.

Matthew Peck: True.

John Israel: The other point is answering this question, which is how do you treat that for which you are grateful? Because I can tell you all day long how much I appreciate you, but if I never back that up with action, do I really mean it? Doesn’t that seem odd? Like imagine, my wife, this happened the other day. She was cooking bacon in our kitchen the other day. Like, bacon, like pops grease, right? She’s holding a baby in one hand. And what I wanted to say was like, “Honey, you’re doing so great. Thank you so much for how hard you’re working.” Is that what my wife needed in that moment? No, she needed me to say, “Hey, I’ll take the baby. Let me help you.” Sometimes, that’s what it means to appreciate somebody is to do something for them, to show up for them, to help them with their deepest need. And if you want to know how to make lifelong connection, it’s to serve people in their deepest need. Because if you do that, you become somebody who they don’t want to live without. And I don’t care at what stage or age of life you are, we all want somebody who’s going to show up for us.

Matthew Peck: Well, and I would say, John, and thanks so much because I did want to share a little bit, I know we’re wrapping up soon, Derek, but just the idea of that type of relationship building and being there for our clients and how your sort of philosophy or at least your teachings and your practice is something that we certainly have tried to incorporate here at SHP in regards to asking clients, not just, oh, how much do you spend? How much do you save? But no, truly trying to understand them on a very personal and deeper level so that we can create that type of significance in their own lives, and then to be there during those moments.

And actually, ironically enough, Derek’s dad was involved in this, but I lost a very good client of mine in January of this year. And just being there for the husband who lost his wife after many years and that type of the bonds that are formed during those types of moments and just not looking for anything out of it, but just more being there for him as a support during those times and not that it happens all the time, nor do we want it to happen all the time, but I certainly can stress that what you teach is something that we absolutely try to live day to day with our client relationship.

Derek Gregoire: And this wasn’t even planned, but to put a bow, no pun intended, on this podcast, as Matt just mentioned, when that client passed away, she was near and dear to our heart. Back to my dad, not even my client, Matt’s client, he builds this relationship with their family, right? Goes to their funeral in Boston, like way away from where we live. And I come home from a trip from Florida, on my desk is a note from her husband and said, “Hey, I know your dad really loved Bobby Orr. I want him to have this.”

It was basically a Bobby Orr signed game jersey that they had given my dad. So, think about the gifting back, obviously, my dad didn’t do that for anything, but that whole full circle there, the appreciation, gratitude, being there, showing up, I mean, that was all wrapped together. It’s amazing when Matt just brought that up, because that wasn’t even on my radar. But yeah, think about how that all played out in that one story. And obviously, the gratitude was high all across the board. And showing up for Matt, Matt showed up for them, my dad showed up for them, and they recognize it and they’ll be lifelong friends. The family, her husband, son, daughter, they’re going to be lifelong friends, family, clients for ongoing. So, it’s amazing when you think of like how that all works out when you do things the right way and show up for people.

John Israel: Yeah. And this might be a weird turn, but I think it’s relevant to what you’re talking about here, which is there’s– I mean, y’all deal with wills and trusts and things like that, and there’s this, it doesn’t matter who you are in relation to somebody, whether you’re related or you’re a business associate or you’re their caretaker. We are connected to those that show up for us. We are connected to those that help make us feel safe, seen, significant, and supported. And it’s just one of those things that you can have really great personal relationships with people in business, right?

And in some ways, and this is to like call attention where there might be lacking for anybody who’s listening here, but it’s like, there are some reasons, like, we’ll get really attached to their careers and their jobs because they leave a house where they feel unrecognized, unappreciated and they go to an office where people love and appreciate and the value of the hard work that they put in, right? And vice versa, we get that. So, we go where the needs are going to be met.

And so, I love that you guys do this inside of your business because ultimately, that’s what we want to provide for people. You’re not trying to take a place of somebody, but it’s like something that we all desire is we want to be in relationship, and so, especially with what you guys do, it’s such a long-term connection with somebody. I bet there’s some really great partnerships, relationships that you’ve built with clients, that you’ll do business with them, you’ll do business with their kids because there’s been such time spent together. And that’s beautiful. I think, ideally, that’s how business should be run.

Derek Gregoire: Absolutely.

John Israel: And unfortunately, and I think the consumers, some listeners who are listening can probably relate to this, that’s not how all businesses run. And there’s that moment where you’ve been in conversation with someone you’ve been in business with and you get that vibe that you’re just a number, right? Maybe it’s that email blast they send you where they misspelled your name, maybe when they get together with you and they forgot your spouse’s name, right? Any number of things that just have us feel like they don’t– does this person really care? So, why I’m grateful that we’ll be doing an event together later on in the year is that like y’all are a very well producing team for a reason, because you build these types of relationships with your clients. That’s why I’m excited to work with you guys.

Derek Gregoire: Yeah, as we close things up, John is going to actually come and work with us on a client appreciation event, which we’re really excited. We’re recording this early, Q2 2025, later this fall, we’re going to have John be part of a client appreciation event. So, if you’re a client, obviously, you’re going to be excited of that, listening to this podcast. And yeah, in the meantime, if you want to get ahead of it, the book is Mr. Thank You Project, right, by John Israel. And yeah, this was awesome, honestly. Thank you so much for your time. And this was just awesome. And we look forward to connecting down the road.

John Israel: Yeah, absolutely. Thanks for having me, guys.

Derek Gregoire: Thank you so much.

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