Navigating Today’s Mortgage Rate Landscape with Nathan Hartseil — EP 029

[INTRODUCTION]

Matthew Peck: Welcome, everyone, to another edition of the SHP Financial’s Retirement Roadmap podcast. I’m your host today, joined by Keith Ellis. Derek is, as always, kind of finding his own way, probably on a golf course right now or probably filming a nice TV show.

Keith Ellis Jr.: There we go.

Matthew Peck: Right. Absolutely. He’s out there doing his own thing, which is a great thing too. You know, as I say, teamwork makes the dream work here at SHP. So, today we have a very special guest. In an effort to continue to remind and to reinforce all the different services and all the different alliances that SHP has on behalf of their clients, we want to bring on Nathan Hartseil of Main Street Home Loans. And so, what Nathan does is work with our existing clients and obviously other clients as well to help navigate the mortgage industry, rising interest rates, when to refinance. Are we buying a new home? What are jumbo loans and ARMs, adjustable rate mortgages? And specifically, we want to bring Nathan on because it’s a whole new environment now. We haven’t lived through or been through a rising interest rate environment in close to two decades now.

And so, we’re going to ask him questions like what type of advice are you giving your clients right now during these types of environment? What type of impact have we seen on the overall real estate market with the interest rates rising by Powell? And also, how does that work? I mean, when Chairman Powell says, “Okay. Hey, we’re going to raise interest rates,” has that been priced in? I mean, should people be waiting until interest rates stop rising to start to act? Those are just all questions that we have. But at the end of the day, by working with other professionals and working with people that are experts in other fields, we just feel that we’re doing the best we can on behalf of SHP clients or if you’re not an SHP client, and if you do have an advisor, just really making sure that they are also partnering with experts in every single field because you’re going to need a team. The world is much more complicated than it’s ever been and it’s not getting any less complex. And surrounding yourself with good, solid teammates is really how are you going to be able to navigate the world at large.

[INTERVIEW]

Matthew Peck: So, without much further ado, I’d like to bring on Nathan Hartseil and welcome to the podcast.

Nathan Hartseil: Well, thanks, Matt, Keith, SHP. It’s an honor to be here and hopefully, I can shed some light on your questions today.

Matthew Peck: Yeah, absolutely. And as we always say, hopefully, you’re okay with the fact that there are no dumb questions. That’s okay. So, even if it’s like our listeners would be like, “Wait a second, isn’t Keith and Matt supposed to be financial guys?” And then we may ask some questions that might not be up to your standard, but we’ll hold that thought.

Nathan Hartseil: That’s okay. I brought my crystal ball today.

Matthew Peck: Oh, good. That would be very helpful. Well, then as I mentioned about being an expert and certainly, obviously, you have a lot of experience. So, tell us a little bit more about your background, how you got into the mortgage industry, how long you’ve been doing it for. So, just start at the beginning.

Nathan Hartseil: Sure. So, after high school, pretty much right after I turned 18 years old, I joined the Marine Corps. I was in the Marine Corps for eight years, four-and-a-half active, three-and-a-half reservists. I went to college at Eastern Illinois University. Some of you may know Tony Romo. He lived right next door to me at Eastern Illinois University. Jimmy Garoppolo went there, too, but he was a little after my time. And so, after Eastern Illinois University, the financial market was hot. This was probably about 2005 where mortgages in the US were just anybody and everybody was writing mortgages. And it was the day of subprime mortgages where I started in the industry and moved my way up to all-day and then conventional financing. But I started in the industry. My first company was with Encore Credit Corporation who was acquired by Bear Stearns. So, I ended up working for Bear Stearns probably about 2005 to 2007. And I was there when the TVs went wild and Bear Stearns was going under. Everybody had lost everything and I’m like, “Where’s my profit sharing? Where’s my stock options?” And I learned the financial industry really quick my first two years because my second job I got hired by Lehman Brothers.

Matthew Peck: All the hits this year, huh?

Nathan Hartseil: I had worked there for about two paychecks.

Matthew Peck: Did you work for like Polaroid or any other companies that went bankrupt?

Nathan Hartseil: I didn’t but I got about two paychecks and lost my job again. So, here I am in my twenties, really jump feet-first into the financial industry and I felt like I was sinking. So, I actually went out on my own. I met some really great people. So, while the financial service industry took a turn for the worst, I met some good people at both companies that experienced downfall and the loss of their job, similar like I did, and we went out on our own and I actually went into commercial for a while writing feasibility studies on large scale and international commercial products to present to investors for financing. And I did this for probably about four or five years prior to moving to the great state of Massachusetts and starting my business all over, trying to grab a foothold in a new area while I was familiar with the industry. I’m originally from outside of Chicago and I must say I felt like that area was a little more devastated at the time, and I had a better success ratio and chance of building a new client base and working with a client base the way I wanted to, really putting the client first here in the Massachusetts market. So, I’ve been in the Massachusetts market for probably about ten years now.

Matthew Peck: Okay. Well, I’m sorry to interrupt but like go back to – so that’s amazing that the fact that you had that background like the subprime. So, I mean, I know, obviously, you just started out, right? But did you have any inclination that, “Oh, my goodness, these subprime mortgages are not a good idea,” or were you just like, “Hey, I was brand new. I’m just selling what they told me to sell?” You know what I mean?

Nathan Hartseil: Well, a little bit of both, to be honest with you. You know, I better understood especially working for large financial firms the way the wheels turned. And as long as there was an investor base and as long as these loans were being bought and sold or put into mortgage-backed securities, and there was a market, whether it be international market or conventional market, the wheels were turning, they were being bought, they were being purchased. So, I looked at it at the time this was the norm. Now, I have to say, I mean, granted, Bear Stearns, Lehman Brothers got a really bad rap from subprime mortgages but I was always taught in the industry, “If it makes sense, we can find a way to do it.” So, whether some people were writing loans that just didn’t make sense, I’ve always been that person. You know, like I said earlier, what’s best for the client? If I felt that this client could not make this payment reasonably or I was going to put somebody into some type of danger or financial hardship, I always put morale over a paycheck in my pocket.

Matthew Peck: Yeah. No, absolutely, which is obviously part of the reason why we partner to say the least. But also, walk me through that, too, because just on a day-to-day, right? Because there’s underwriters, right? I mean, I guess how much decisions do you make in regards to what to offer per se? And then obviously all the information gets over to an underwriter, right? So, just walk our clients and our listeners through that overall process and how much is in your hands as the broker versus how much is in some actuary that’s somewhere in the basement? Like how does that work?

Nathan Hartseil: No, absolutely. Great question. So, I manage the area for Main Street Home Loans. We are a division of NFM, which is a larger company and I get a lot of control and I get a lot of free rein, which is great. And part of the reason I hang my hat with Main Street Home Loans because I feel I do have the expertise in the industry and they trust me on a day-to-day basis to make the right decisions. That being said, we keep everything local. So, I have my own underwriter in office, my own processing team in office, my own closing team in office. All my appraisers are local. While they don’t directly work for me, we are our own AMC, which is an appraisal management company. And so, we have protocols in place to avoid any type of fraud or influence, anything like that. Now, I’m not only a broker, first and foremost, I’m a banker. We are a direct lender, so we hold in-service at one point. It was over 40% of the loans that we actually originate. We’re also a direct seller to Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, your top 20 banks. We also portfolio our own product via Ginnie Mae products.

So, if there are products that we don’t offer, I can broker a product and we offer some outside-the-box things that we choose not to do in-house that I broker. But first and foremost, definitely a banker, that it’s our money.

Matthew Peck: And is that different than…?

Keith Ellis Jr.: I was going to ask.

Matthew Peck: Yeah. I mean….

Keith Ellis Jr.: You go down to the local bank, like what’s the difference I guess from…

Nathan Hartseil: So, a banker were directly lending on our products whether we portfolio those and servicing ourselves, whether we launch our own mortgage-backed security or direct sell to Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac is kind of our prerogative. A broker definitely, they don’t have their own in-house product. They’re lending their own money. They’re taking other products and they’re offering those to their clients. So, to make money on those products…

Keith Ellis Jr.: So, there’s a little bit of an extra fee in there.

Nathan Hartseil: Absolutely. Now, they may get a more premium pricing. I’m not saying that it’s always higher. They may get a more premium pricing but then they have to add their fee to make money on top of it. And the more fee that they usually add is more of a payday for them. I am not paid off yield spread. So, my job is to offer my clients, at least when we bank the loan, the best interest rate available. I paid off volume that I do, not adding to interest rate or adding to fees. That’s why we have a standard fee across the board for every loan that we originate. And it doesn’t change. If you borrow 30,000 or 3 million, it doesn’t matter. It’s the same flat fee.

Matthew Peck: Which I think too. Let’s expand on that a little bit too because interestingly enough I hear terms like points and you mentioned something like yield spread. So, I mean, and again, as I said, sure, hopefully, questions. I get some questions but how do individuals in your field get paid? I mean, is it points? Is it yield spread? I mean, is it just a flat agent fee? I mean, as you mentioned, you just said it was flat as compared to what they are refinancing a $200,000 home or a $2 million home. It’s the same?

Nathan Hartseil: Well, that’s on the origination of the underwriting and processing fee and there’s really no money in that for any lender whatsoever. It actually costs more to originate a loan than we charge on the front end of the loan. So, it’s kind of just to stay competitive in the market. It’s kind of a loss upfront if that client doesn’t follow through all the way to the end with you. So, we offer, we have published rate sheets. And with these published rate sheets, people fit into different categories based off credit score, debt-to-income ratio, amount of down payment. Is it a condo, a single-family home, a multi-family home? Is it an investment property? Is it owner-occupied? A second home? So, there’s a multitude that affect interest rates. Lenders make their money. It’s called yield spread. So, that is the difference between what money is borrowed at and what money is lent at. So, our published rates in between what we borrow money at would be a yield spread.

Matthew Peck: Okay. But you said you don’t do that but other firms do.

Nathan Hartseil: No. Adding on to the published rates.

Matthew Peck: Got it. Okay.

Nathan Hartseil: Yes, which would be like a broker fee origination points. And points on a loan like one point is 1% of the amount you borrow. So, if you ever see your fees when you go to closing and you’re borrowing $300,000 and there’s one point on there, that’s costing you $3,000 at close.

Matthew Peck: And does that impact your interest rate or just more of that so that’s your origination fee?

Nathan Hartseil: So, a little bit of both. So, if you’re a broker and you have a broker fee is one point on there, that is part of your origination fee.

Matthew Peck: Okay.

Nathan Hartseil: If my published rate is 6.25 but you come to me and you’re like, “Nate, I got to be in the box. I need a 5.99.” That rate is available. I can get that rate. That is a published rate. However, there is a difference between where we borrow money and our published par rate of 6.25 to that 5.99. So, a borrower can pay points to reduce that interest rate. Now, say it’s one point to get to a 5.99 from a 6.25 on that $300,000 loan. That borrower would pay $3,000 at closing to be able to obtain that lower rate. And my job is to also talk with the client and find out how long do we anticipate you’re going to be in this interest rate. Are you buying the house for a year? Are you refinancing? You plan on moving in six months? Do we think interest rates are going to improve in the next 6 to 12 months? And if that’s only saving $15 to $25 a month in payment, it may not be worth it for that client to pay those points to bring the interest rate down. But if they say, “No, Nate. We don’t anticipate refinancing. This is our forever home. We’re going to be here 20, 30 years,” that $20, $30 a month definitely exceeds that $3,000 they’re paying. So, I guess we have to correlate with the client to find out their closest reward.

Keith Ellis Jr.: What are their goals?

Nathan Hartseil: Yeah. Like goals.

Matthew Peck: Yeah. But this way I had no idea of going into the call, I mean, that’s why we ask those questions because it’s like, but it really is that complex in a sense or there are more options. I could always think of, “Okay. You have a fixed rate and have a variable rate.” Decide what you want to do or an ARM with adjustable rate mortgage. Do you want to lock it in for 5 to 7? But there are all of this sort of back behind the scenes activity that’s there that the general listener, whoever might not be aware.

Nathan Hartseil: Absolutely. And a broker a lot of time is paid by the lender, though all for a slightly higher rate and the lender pays points to the broker on the back end that the client doesn’t see. So, these are some alternative ways that people are paid in this industry. But there’s a lot of money in this industry as well as a direct lender like myself and servicing. So, if we keep that loan, like I said at one point, we’re keeping about 40% right now with the ups and downs of the market. I don’t even know where we’re at.

Keith Ellis Jr.: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Nathan Hartseil: You know, a lot of people sold off servicing to become liquid now because lenders right now it’s not strange to anybody that lenders are kind of hurting right now with the climb in interest rates and Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac do not allow direct lenders to claim an unprofitable quarter for two quarters in a row. So, that’s why you see a lot of these large banks now selling off their servicing lenders like us so you can appear liquid. Honestly, you don’t have to claim all they can process.

Matthew Peck: Well, yeah. So, let’s broaden the conversation into that. Okay. So, now we’re dealing with our first rising interest rate environment in close to 20, almost 25 years. I mean we’re seeing like keep an eye on our side. You know, we’re seeing annuities and CDs and bond rates that we haven’t seen in at least…

Keith Ellis Jr.: 4.5, 5.25%. It’s insane.

Matthew Peck: Absolutely. So, obviously, that’s on the savers end of things but, yeah…

Keith Ellis Jr.: It’s great for savers.

Matthew Peck: Exactly. Yeah, absolutely, especially if you are conservative and you don’t want to put any money at risk. And I love it because you know, and not to digress too much but for again 20, 25 years, in our world again it was T note in the sense that there is no alternative when it came to stocks. But people would be like, “Okay. What rate of return do I have?” Everyone would put money into equities because there was no alternative. But now after 20 years, there is an alternative for the savers. But now let’s talk about borrowers. Let’s talk about people that are either buying a new home or refinancing or whatever that may be. I mean, at the end of the day, how do you…

Keith Ellis Jr.: Navigate this?

Matthew Peck: Yes. Exactly. What do you tell your clients in a rising interest rate environment?

Nathan Hartseil: Sure. This is where…

Keith Ellis Jr.: Is there like a strategy like, “Oh, do I buy now then they expect to refinance in two years?” You know what I mean?

Nathan Hartseil: So, this is where I wish I had a crystal ball.

Keith Ellis Jr.: Sure. I thought you brought it.

Nathan Hartseil: This is where kind of I don’t want to use the word expertise because we are in kind of unprecedented times for variable of reasons. One, people got used to 2% and 3% interest rates. Well, that happened because we had a pandemic. I mean, unless we which truly a national disaster again, the likelihood of 2% and 3% interest rates is close to zero.

Keith Ellis Jr.: Right.

Nathan Hartseil: We shouldn’t have been there. That’s not a healthy industry for us to be in. I mean, was it nice for people? Absolutely. But what does that do now? We have people in their forties, fifties, sixties that are sitting on 2% and 3% interest rates that never want to leave.

Keith Ellis Jr.: I was going to say they’re going to be pretty hesitant to own…

Nathan Hartseil: So, our new buyer right now became the ages of like 26 to 35 years old and these are people who didn’t own a home.

Keith Ellis Jr.: And maybe can’t even qualify. You know, maybe they don’t show enough income yet to even qualify.

Nathan Hartseil: That’s absolutely true. I mean, the interest rates have definitely prohibited what would people qualify for. There is a bright side to all of this though. We’ve seen this before. Whether it’s the Fed’s raising interest rates, we know that inflation has to be combated by mortgage interest rates. The mortgage industry is probably the second driver of our economy in the United States. You know, so what that means also is while interest rates have to rise to combat inflation, we need to rebound the mortgage industry at some point, too. So, when we come down from this inflation, we need to beef up our mortgage side again and we need to give people incentive to buy.

Matthew Peck: Is that in the form of like tax credits? I’m sure there’s a lobbyist or…

Nathan Hartseil: Usually, with interest rates. So, usually at the end run of, you know.

Keith Ellis Jr.: Of a time like this. Sure.

Nathan Hartseil: A recession. As a whole, interest rates get very appealing to spark the economy again, drive the economy. Right now, you mentioned bonds earlier. Mortgage rates are primarily driven by the ten-year treasury.

Matthew Peck: That’s what I was going to ask about because any time and so this might be on the mechanical side of it, it’s like okay the Federal Reserve is raising its short-term, you know, like almost its lending rate but that’s a very short-term end of the yield curve, i.e., very, very short-term bonds but yet mortgages are ten-year. They’re tied to the ten-year, even though they’re 30-year notes?

Nathan Hartseil: Correct. The ten-year treasury because the likelihood somebody is holding a loan anymore for 30 years is very, very…

Matthew Peck: Got it. Interesting.

Nathan Hartseil: So, primarily off the ten-year treasury. So, fortunately in our industry, sometimes bad news is good for interest rates. You know, when that ten-year Treasury falls, interest rates fall, which is good for us.

Keith Ellis Jr.: Yeah.

Matthew Peck: And how quickly does it respond? I mean, if someone let’s say you’re tracking the ten-year T note on a daily basis, I mean, how quickly would mortgage rates respond to what the ten-year does? Is it like a two-week lag or is it moving?

Nathan Hartseil: We’re talking multiple times daily.

Matthew Peck: Really?

Nathan Hartseil: No. We’re on real-time pricing.

Keith Ellis Jr.: Oh, wow.

Nathan Hartseil: Which is really, really good. Kind of on the contrary of when the Feds raise rates. It’s a common misconception like Feds raise rates today. So, they quoted me 6.5 yesterday and now I’m at 6.75 today. It does not work that way. The mortgage industry is highly predictive and highly conscious and… What’s the word I’m looking for here?

Keith Ellis Jr.: Forlooking.

Nathan Hartseil: Yeah.

Matthew Peck: It’s forecasting.

Nathan Hartseil: Forecasting and usually being very conservative. So, if there’s indication the Fed’s may raise rates, that’s already priced in 30 to 60 days prior to the Fed meeting even if they don’t raise. So, maybe rates will go down that day. And most of the time what we see is Fed’s will raise rates and then the next day rates will go down a little bit because we tend to overcompensate in our industry.

Keith Ellis Jr.: Again, we’re being more conservative. Right. Stuck holding the bag.

Nathan Hartseil: Exactly.

Matthew Peck: So, I’m sorry to interrupt. Okay. So, now is it new homeowners? I mentioned you talk about how there are people that are no longer in the field or whatever in the marketplace because they have some great 30-year note at 2.5% or whatever. So, I mean, are you still encouraging people to lock in rates regardless or are you saying, “Wait?”

Keith Ellis Jr.: ARMs.

Matthew Peck: Yeah. Have you adjusted your recommendations based on where we are?

Nathan Hartseil: So, I actually adjust my recommendations daily. I have platforms that I subscribe to pay money to that I monitor the market to the best of my ability. There’s people better than me out there and there’s people that this is their daily, daily job is to strictly monitor interest rates and mortgage rates, and where they’re going hour by hour. Now, while I like to think I’m an expert like that, I also have to dedicate a lot of time to my clients and making sure their loans get to the finish line and finish line on time and they’re well taken care of. That being said, I have the equivalent to a stock picker mortgage interest rates daily and suggestions whether to float or lock their interest rate and then predictions as a whole. When are you closing? You know, are you closing in the next three weeks? Do you have a new build that’s closing in May? Because there may be different advice for different clients. You know, a new construction now in May, I mean, fingers crossed in our industry. April is supposed to be the big month for a lot of things to come to fruition and positive news coming out, hopefully, an end run to kind of the turmoil we’re in now. And those numbers will be announced May 10th.

Matthew Peck: What numbers are you referring to? Just like job reports and inflation reports?

Nathan Hartseil: Well, everything. Inflation reports, job reports, new construction.

Matthew Peck: Okay.

Nathan Hartseil: Durable goods. Multiple factors just like your industry affect our industry. And when these announcements come out, while they say we’re very, very resilient economy, we’re also a very skeptical and nervous economy where any little bit of news, whether it be good or bad, whether it really has a direct impact or not will sway the market huge right now. And you’ll see news come out and rates go up quarter percent today. Well, two days later, they’re back down. You know, it wasn’t really that big of a deal. Well, like I said earlier, we’re overcompensating. While we may be resilient, we’re still scared.

Matthew Peck: Yeah, right. We’re still nervous and uncertain is another way of putting it, too. So, pretty much like under normal and normal times is your business like half, like 50% refinancing and 50% new home purchases. And now it’s all new home because no one’s refinancing or no?

Nathan Hartseil: I would say that is a very, very accurate and normal standard of business. It was probably 70/30 two years ago when rates were at a low and it’s probably 95/5 purchase to refinance now. Life-changing events are always something that comes up. You know, we’re having children, we’re having another child, family expansion, divorce. So, there are circumstances that are always out there. And no matter where rates are at, they’re going to trigger refinances, state buyouts, people pass, things like that. But yeah, it’s strictly pretty much purchased now.

Matthew Peck: And how is it in Massachusetts? I mean, how is inventory? What’s the lay of the land?

Nathan Hartseil: So, there’s a major lack of inventory and maybe it’s some of the people who would have sold that are sitting at those 2% or 3% right now.

Keith Ellis Jr.: Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

Nathan Hartseil: But we also have kind of a late spring in Massachusetts. We never know when that last big snowfall is going to be. And spring market predominantly is pretty hot in the state of Massachusetts, where inventory comes on the market. You know, just last month, I think, and the United States as a whole was around like 680,000 listings, which is well under any other market in the past 3 to 5 years. We’re hoping and we’re very optimistic. I’m an optimistic person.

Matthew Peck: Yeah.

Nathan Hartseil: I’m hoping for those lower rates in May. I’d love to see sub-five again but I do think there’ll be turnover this year. I think spring market will tell a lot moving forward. We’re hopeful. And like I said, inventory coming on. I can’t predict but it’s going to be huge because we have a really, really strong job market in the state of Massachusetts and stronger than what I’ve experienced in all the other places I’ve lived due to the tech, the biotech, the medical colleges.

Keith Ellis Jr.: Yeah, the institutions. Yes.

Nathan Hartseil: I mean, we have huge head companies that don’t have to recruit from other states. Recruit from right here. So, that job market is always going to spark a housing market, especially Boston, surrounding areas of Boston. And these people need someplace to live. And while usually, a recession triggers lower rents, that really hasn’t happened in the state of Massachusetts. I mean, rents are still stable or on the rise, which is kind of an anomaly from what we’re used to. So, I do think and I’m hopeful, like I said, of some more inventory coming on the market. We’ve seen that in the last couple of weeks, which is good.

Matthew Peck: Okay. Well, say certainly fingers crossed, to say the least. And then last and I’ll let you pitch a little bit to Main Street Home Loans. Besides what I think of, and let me say Keith and I think of like you have your variable rate, you have your fixed rate type of loans. Are there any other funky loans? Like, I hear about construction loans and jumbo loans, I mean, reverse mortgages, those are just all these things that people hear about. I mean, are they under your umbrella or is that something that obviously I’m sure you worked in the industry but just to kind of tell us a little bit more about exactly where Main Street kind of really focuses if you can share with all of our listeners?

Nathan Hartseil: So, as the market constricts and interest rates are on the rise and sometimes regulation tightens up, we’re lenders and this is what we do for a living. So, what we do is adapt and we come out with new products to compensate. And that’s one of the positives when you go through something like this are new products coming to the market to serve people who are in need of them. I mean, we have debt service coverage ratio products, which is not quite a stated income but if you’re buying an investment property and the rents cover the mortgage and you have a pretty good down payment, 20% to 25%, we don’t need to look into your income and your tax returns. The project relies on the self-sufficiency of the property itself. Adjustable rate mortgages are a great way to combat higher interest rates in the short term. While we can’t predict the future, you know there are good options. Now, I don’t think they’re quite where they need to be. This is a great difference between the 30-year fixed and the adjustable rate because the Fed’s whole purpose of increasing interest rates is to combat inflation. If you’re offering smoking rates on an adjustable-rate mortgage, it’s working contrary to the purpose. So, that’s why you won’t see a huge vast difference in adjustable rate mortgages through the 30-year fixed right now. We do cross-collateralization on property.

So, Massachusetts as a whole is a very difficult environment to sell a home and buy a home as a contingent offer on the sale of my home because there are so many buyers out there right now with the lack of inventory. You’re up against people who don’t have to sell a home. So, we can cross-collateralize both properties if you have equity in that property and you don’t have to make a contingent offer. We can do home equity lines on your existing property so you can go in and buy non-contingent on the sale of your home as long as your debt-to-income ratio can effectively cover both properties at the time. And these are things we evaluate on our end. Jumbo loans, we have a wide array of different properties.

Matthew Peck: And jumbo loan is what?

Nathan Hartseil: Yeah. I don’t want to go into too much detail.

Matthew Peck: It just means for bigger property, right?

Nathan Hartseil: it does. Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac back conventional loans. That’s what a conventional loan is. And they set the standards and each county has its own loan limit. So, anything over what they’re comfortable and what the county loan limit says they’re comfortable to make it a conventional loan.

Keith Ellis Jr.: Becomes a jumbo.

Nathan Hartseil: Becomes a jumbo loan, and that is serviced and held by whoever the investor it is. We probably have 20 of our own products. We also offer your top 20 banks products. If you come to me, I can offer you Wells Fargo, BB&T, Truist, a wide array of different products and each in its own has its own caveats. No two are the same. As the conventional loan has a set of guidelines that you fall into this category, each non-conforming jumbo loan pretty much has its own different set of rules and qualification standards. Yes.

Keith Ellis Jr.: It’s a lot to know.

Matthew Peck: Yeah, that’s my point. So, Nate, thank you so much again. So, it’s Nathan Hartseil from Main Street Home Loans. Again, thank you so much for joining us.

Keith Ellis Jr.: Thanks so much for helping our clients, too. You’ve really done a good job with a lot of them and the feedback I get is amazing mostly.

Nathan Hartseil: Well, thank you, guys. I mean it.

Keith Ellis Jr.: I really appreciate it.

Nathan Hartseil: You know, I noticed right when we kind of met each other and I became a client as well. You know, I have this in my mind kind of ingrained, and maybe it’s from the military days to offer a truly white glove service. I realized that I’m not the only guy on the street, you know? And while this downturn in the market, 40% of loan officers didn’t renew their license this year, so competition became a little bit less.

Keith Ellis Jr.: There we go.

Nathan Hartseil: I realized that I’m not the only game in town, so I need to offer something different and I offer something to my client that in a fashion I want to be treated and which I definitely see the differences in how you guys treat your clients that complete white glove service. Because if I’m going to send a client somewhere, I want them to be treated how I know I would treat them. And that’s hard when you’re not the same company and that’s hurting a lot of faith and trust in somebody else. I love sending clients your way and I really appreciate when you recommend me to your clients because I definitely try to go above and beyond with that service.

Matthew Peck: Well, certainly not just the service, obviously. It’s also just your knowledge. I mean, when it comes to how complex mortgage the whole mortgage industry is, it gives you a good idea that you need someone in your corner that understands it all that is kind of rolling with the punches, too, because clearly, especially in this environment, it is changing daily from what you said earlier.

Nathan Hartseil: I’m flattered, but it is only mortgage banking. It’s not rocket science.

Matthew Peck: I don’t know. Some of the stuff that you were saying was a little bit very…

Keith Ellis Jr.: Technical.

Matthew Peck: Exactly. It’s a great way to put it. Thank you, Keith. But I certainly want to, again, thank you so much for coming out. It was obviously huge for our listeners as well as for our clients to say the least, and certainly, too we’ll put up any type of contact info necessary here and there. But I certainly want to thank all our listeners as well for tuning in. Hope you found it as interesting as we did and certainly is helpful. At the end of the day, that’s what we’re trying to do, I mean, to provide good information, make everyone as an aware and a smart consumer as possible to ask the questions that need to be asked, and to understand how all the moving parts work. Because the more we understand it, the better decisions that you make, whether it’s about applying for what mortgage or about how to invest, or whether it’s an income plan, tax plan, everything that we do every single day, the more you understand it, again, the better decisions that you make. You know, Nate Hartseil is obviously part of that process as well. So, again, thank you all for listening. Again, thank you for joining us today. And stay tuned for our next podcast.

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