SHP’s Philosophy on Financial Planning & Asset Management with William Malagodi – Ep 055

Matthew Peck: Welcome everyone to another edition of SHP Financial’s Retirement Road Map podcast. I’m your solo host today, Matthew Peck. Have you ever wondered how a $1 billion firm actually operates? At times, we welcome people onto the show when we talk about a number of things. We talk about family and transferring wealth on to the next generation. We talk about building goals for each individual when it comes to retirement planning, or even personal planning and self-help when we had Michael Hyatt on the show.

But every once in a while, I think about how much people might not know on the amount of work that happens behind the scenes. And in fact, recently, or in 2023, SHP Financial passed over the $1 billion threshold. So, SHP now manages over $1 billion of AUM or what’s called assets under management. So, have you ever wondered what goes into that? What is the day-to-day process when it comes to that? And so, that’s why we want to bring Bill Malagodi back onto the show. You may remember him from an earlier program, but Bill has spent over 10 years– or actually, he has spent 10 years at a large kind of wirehouse firm before spending the last five years with SHP, helping build out, manage, and run a $1 billion RIA firm. So, here to talk about that again is Bill. And without much further ado, welcome back to the show.

William Malagodi: Hi, good morning, and thank you for having me, Matt.

Matthew Peck: Absolutely. So, Bill, here’s how I’m going to kind of structure today. All right? We talk a lot about what’s called manager selection. Now, let me define manager selection for all of our listeners. What manager selection is, is that when we take a look at who manages our client’s assets, we want to make sure that we select and scrutinize and do due diligence on each individual, whether it’s a Fidelity fund or a J.P. Morgan fund or a First Trust or whomever that may be.

As part of our training, they talk about the four P’s, which is take a look at the people, take a look at the philosophy, what is the process, and then last but not least is the performance. So, rather than looking at an external manager, let’s kind of use that four P’s and show the spotlight on SHP as to who are our people, what is our philosophy, what is our process, how do we manage and adjust for performance. So, that’s kind of what we’re going to use today to talk about it. So, Bill, whichever one you want to talk about first, obviously, we can talk about people because I mean, we’re pretty cool. So, you can start there if you want. But let’s kind of break that down and tell us more about the day to day, and then we can kind of go back to those four areas.

William Malagodi: Yeah. And again, it really does start with the people though. Our team is consisted of five people, including yourself, Matt. I manage a team of three, and these three people, including myself, along with Matt, are able to manage the billion dollars that we have under management. And everyone has a key function in this team. And without one of these team members, we would not be able to do this. So, it is critical for all of us to work together.

But we have Mike Prescott, who is our trader. Before we can even get into the nitty-gritty, he is the one that’s actually getting everything implemented for the clients per the financial plan. And then once Mike is able to do that, we have two amazing analysts, a senior analyst in Dave Hathaway, and then CFA Cam Iarrabino. And both of them are constantly using their resources and tools such as Morningstar to run scenarios, manager reviews, and everything that we’re about to go through. But those two team members are so critical to the research and everything that we do as the final product. We can’t have this final product without these team members. So, we have such an important function managing these billion dollars. So, between the analysts, you, our trader, and myself making sure these team members need everything they have to help manage these billion dollars as efficiently as possible, these are the members that make up this team, and these are our people.

Matthew Peck: Excellent. And that’s the thing, too. I really wanted to make sure that all of our listeners, whether they are SHP clients already or whether they are just sort of friends of friends at this point in time, understand how much work does go into it because we often talk Bill about the five areas of the five worlds when it comes to financial planning – income planning, tax planning, health care, legacy, and then investment planning. But certainly, each of these five areas, we put a lot of emphasis in, but I really did want to do that deep dive into the investment planning and the investment management so that, again, all of our existing clients or all of friends of friends or people that are just listeners and followers understand how much detail and again, that day to day.

So, if we go back to process, I mean, tell me kind of about meetings, right? I mean, I know people maybe don’t want to talk about, oh, where like, take us through every single meeting, but more so, like, okay, I know that we’re having our biweekly investment committee meeting, but who else is part of sort of the people, who else do we bring to bear when it comes to learning more about the universe of the funds that you can invest in?

William Malagodi: Yeah. And that’s part of the process is, these outside firms and outside resources, they can provide us the information to make these decisions for the portfolios. So, part of the process is, we’ll start with the current macro situation, what’s going on with the economy, so based off of what our conversations are. So, first off, we have our own internal meeting. Again, we’re kind of a couple teams formed into one, but in essence, we have the investment committee for SHP. And once a week, we meet, and then we go over these economic conditions, how they’re going to impact the portfolios and the assets we manage.

And then once we’ve all kind of come to a common agreement of what’s going on, how do we tackle that? What’s the tool and what’s the investment that’s going to best hedge the current scenario or have the portfolios benefit from that? So, then that comes from the process of using our information. Where does our information come from? So, we’re using Morningstar Direct, which is basically all the information from investments are flowing into this one database.

And then from there, we’re looking at various and multiple different data points. And then at that point, we find certain funds that we would call best in class. And then if that manager happens to be J.P. Morgan, First Trust, Fidelity, like Matt has mentioned, we will then take the time to reach out to our representative who supports us in our territory and then ask more detailed questions. So, from there, we’re able to really get the basics, what we need to know to feel confident. And then we reach out to that manager, whoever that firm may be for that product or investment to get really the nitty-gritty information, what you would call like in from a car analogy, opening up the hood. We’re really finding how it works, who’s managing it, their internal people, not just our people reviewing the fund, their people, as we talked in the previous episode.

So, that’s the point in time, we’re really sitting down and look at these investments and maybe asking some uncomfortable questions to these managers, like when does your fund I know perform in negatively in certain conditions? We want to know that. Our clients need to know that. And I mean, we want to be able to speak to every condition an investment can go through, like we confidently understand them and their history as well. So, that meeting, coming from the managers, really, really helps us narrow down our manager selection from the fund side of things. So, we take our people to find the funds, then to locate those people from the asset managers to really narrow down this selection and you really get nitty-gritty to make sure we have, again, the best funds that we feel comfortable for our clients.

Matthew Peck: And there’s so much there to unpack that I’m going to kind of go one by one for our listeners. And the first I’m going to start historically, I’m amazed or even way back when we first started this ride, however many years ago, I was amazed at how much free information is out there, as well as free analysis. In the sense that when we first started, and this is years and years ago, a lot of companies like BlackRock, Vanguard, Fidelity, etc., they would have models, they would have their own models. They’d say, “Okay, if you want a BlackRock moderate portfolio, here is all of their individual funds that would fit their category and their recommendation for a moderate portfolio.”

And guess what? BlackRock isn’t alone. Fidelity has it. WisdomTree has it. Vanguard has it. And the names of all of these large companies go on and on. So, we were able to begin to sort of Frankenstein these models way back when and to kind of combine them, so we use what’s called best in breed, where it’s okay, maybe the BlackRock fund is the best in that particular spot, but the Fidelity fund is best in that particular spot and so forth and so on.

And then furthermore, these firms would then take our portfolios and run them through their own analysis. So, let’s say, “Okay, let’s see an SHP portfolio.” We could then hand it over to a Fidelity or J.P. Morgan or whomever it may be, and then they would run it through their own analysis to say, “Okay, well, this is a little high or this is a little light,” or “We would recommend this fund here or that fund there,” so that we were getting sort of an outsider’s perspective on our particular model that we have then constructed using all of these different managers. I mean, obviously, it’s “free,” although certainly the firms are going to be recommending their funds when they see appropriate.

So, on one hand, we have all of that sort of scrutiny and extra set of eyes when we build out our models and adjust them. But then there’s also an extremely expensive side of it because you mentioned Morningstar Direct, right? Morningstar Direct, Bloomberg, all of these, people say like, “Oh, use Morningstar.” Like, “Yeah.” So, whatever you think of when it comes to retail, Morningstar pales in comparison to what firms like us investing hundreds of thousands of dollars in this type of research technology in the sense to build up our own expertise to then compare it and contrast it. So, when the Fidelity’s, the BlackRock’s, whomever come in with their analysis on our portfolios, we can come up with our own sort of a well-researched sort of database to compare what their thoughts are versus what our internal thoughts are. So, it’s this weird combination of a lot of good solid free information. But at the same time, you can’t just take that information. You also have to invest in your own technology, in your own research software to be able to kind of compare and meet them in the middle. Does that make sense?

William Malagodi: Makes very sense, Matt. And to kind of go, to start where you just ended with information, we use Morningstar Direct and even with our history and experience with Morningstar, reviews of various products through their selection just shows the evolution of information and data I know from a client or any individual or even just a company planning someone’s 401(k) plan. Doing it yourself can be very hard and stressful, and you have to be able to trust and feel confident on your data and your information. So, places like Yahoo! and Google, you can grab a lot of great information.

But to really make a critical decision making, that’s going to impact whether it’s six months from now, a year from now, you just need the extra piece of data. And then Morningstar is allowing us to do that. And then even our version of Morningstar is Direct. Matt, we’ve been the first to experience our upgrade from Morningstar Workstation to Direct. Now, we can take our portfolios and scenario test them within seconds. So, we would take our meetings, whether we would have to kind of now transition to the meeting from Mike, Fidelity. They may come in and tell us, you know what? Your 60/40 portfolio, which is a moderate risk based, is absolutely perfect, but these two areas couldn’t use improvement. And then they tell us why.

So, then we take that information and then we go back to our investment committee. And then what we do is use Morningstar Direct to run scenario testing. We take it versus our current. We take it versus their recommendation. And then maybe if one of our analysts, Dave or Cam, maybe they had a third option. So, then we’re going to take all three of them and then compare them, forward test it, backwards test it, and look at it in every different way possible, and even the cost of everything. So, all of these are built into like, again, just one change. You know how that this meant. That’s just one example of one change. All that goes into just, do we need a new fund? Do we need a better manager? And that goes into just one activity or one action.

Matthew Peck: Yeah, one holding amongst 10 or 12 to– yeah, I’d say, 10 to 15 per model. And so, let me actually kind of define that for our clients too. When we talk about models, it’s the word that you use to sort of say, okay, here’s a conservative model with their 10 to 15 different funds, whether it’s ETFs or mutual funds. And then here is a moderately conservative model and so forth. And then here is a growth model which is individual stocks. I mean, models is another word for a portfolio, really, just so all of our clients know and all of our listeners know. When we say model, you can use model in portfolio, kind of interchangeably.

But also, you brought up an interesting word that I want to kind of go back to, which is risk based. So, sometimes people ask us about our philosophy. Now, philosophy, we can spend some time on because I also want to kind of get into versus active versus passive management and tactical management and just kind of help provide definitions for all of our listeners on what those words are. But expand a little bit on risk based. When you say risk-based portfolio, what do you mean?

William Malagodi: Thank you for asking, Matt. And I want to make sure we clear that up. It’s built into our philosophy. So, if anyone has heard the term risk based, we also associate risk based with allocation based. So, an allocation term is the way we manage and build out these portfolios is we take a specific amount of equities. And we pair that with fixed income or bonds. So, our moderate portfolio for a very typical investor, it’s 60% equities to 40% bonds. So, we determine that is a moderate risk score. So, you’re balanced, that’s we’re trying to create a balanced portfolio for our clients. You have a little more equity to little less bonds.

So, our portfolios that we manage here at SHP, we use that same investment philosophy risk and allocation. And then we build the other portfolios up and down, what we call a ladder. So, if we want to be more aggressive, you would go to our aggressive portfolio, which would be a 90% equity ratio to 10% fixed income/bonds. So, these are all conversations you’ll have with your advisor and how your comfortability level is. Your advisor will come in and kind of pair in your success on their financial plan.

But we have the portfolios that are going to basically cater to risk and allocation, so the clients can really feel comfortable of what they’re investing in. Obviously, we can dive into product and fund specific, but having that baseline understanding of where you’re positioned in the terms of being balanced from equities into fixed income is, I think, along with certain reports we generate, very hands on and really can send the message to what the clients really invested in.

Matthew Peck: And to pick that up too, but what they’re actually invested in, and this is something I just want to kind of digress on a little bit, and maybe just my own kind of wonder as the more you know, the more you don’t know type of thing. And then for anyone that’s really kind of doing it yourself, I mean, let me just kind of break down one little thing you mentioned. You mentioned bonds. Okay, so bonds, most people kind of understand like, oh, yeah, bonds are a little bit more conservative obviously than stocks or equities. And you got to have bonds in your portfolio or at least when it comes to a conservative portfolio.

But even bonds themselves, if you say the word bonds, I’m not sure if you know this, but there is so many different types of bonds themselves, right? You have government bonds. You have corporate bonds. You have high yield bonds. You have emerging market bonds. You have municipal bonds. And then there’s always the other one, agency bonds or whatever it is, mortgage-backed securities, which are bonds. I mean, I see that with you because for people that are kind of trying to construct their own portfolios, I mean, hey, God bless you because we know how much work it goes into constructing it. Because when we just take a look at that one sleeve, when we say sleeve, it’s sort of like that one 40% allocation into bonds, we’re slicing and dicing between all of these different spots. And we need to understand the upside and downside of government bonds and all the different government bonds they are for TIPS and/or Treasury inflated-protected securities and agency bonds like we’re talking about, versus EM bonds. And so, again, if you’re building your own portfolios, I hope that you have these types of information to bear, and not just relying on Yahoo Finance and Google or whatever, because there’s so much to choose from. And finding that balance takes time and takes effort.

William Malagodi: I couldn’t agree more, Matt. Bond conversation is definitely one that could put some listeners and clients to sleep, but that’s why we are here, though. I cannot emphasize that enough. The bond world, people may look at that and clients listening may look at the bond world as it’s something that they can get conservative and you can rely or lay your hat on and be confident in every day. But as we experience in the last few years, bonds can be turbulent. So, selection is critical, Matt, and knowing what bond sector to invest in at the right time, and you mentioned government bonds and that was very advantageous not too long ago.

But we’ve also pivoted from that as well. So, it’s the amount of individual bond sectors there are. It is. There’s a way more than I think the average investor listener can realize in how advantageous it is to be in certain classes during certain economic times, like rising rates or lowering rates. There’s certain bonds to be in at certain economic times. And if you don’t have that research and tool to tell you that, or a team, really, in essence, you’re kind of in a boat without a paddle.

Matthew Peck: Well, and the kind of connect dots, right? So, imagine, if you will, everyone, we want to find out about this particular bond or whatever or fund or sector or sector within those bond funds. And then we’ll call in some of these managers, some of it what are called wholesalers, in our speak. So, let’s say we’re specifically looking at this particular bond fund, well, we’ll want to open up the hood, as Bill was mentioning earlier. We’ll want to look underneath the hood on that particular fund. And so, that’s why– then we’ll have an expert that will come out or zoom or whatever on that particular fund. And then so, now, we’ve just done that deep dive on that one little, let’s say, on average, we have 14 positions in each portfolio. We do a deep dive just into one 14, though, or whatever it may be.

But now having it straight from the horse’s mouth, having sort of like their representative kind of answer all of our individual questions, then we regroup, say, “Hey, I do like that.” I’ll keep on using the car analogy. “I do like that vehicle to kind of be in that one particular spot,” because he’s mentioned, because now we have to then apply sort of the macro situation to it. How would that perform during falling rates, during flat rates, during increasing rates, etc., etc.? And so, that way you can sort of combine the research and our own thoughts, then bringing in the wholesalers and those meetings to really gather as much information as humanly possible before making a decision.

William Malagodi: Yeah, that’s exactly what we do. And with those wholesalers, we take that time. It’s so important to us because normally, the little funny quote is you don’t want to poke the bear, but this is our time to poke the bear. We want to know everything. And this is our time to ask those questions and find out how the fund reacts in certain environments. So, yeah, that time for us is like, for our team, we kind of gear up for those meetings. Those are the times where we are very application based with Morningstar and a few other systems and software, but that’s our time where we can really hands-on ask those questions, and they have to explain to us. So, we really get that straight-up answer from them. So, that allows us when you have the data that you’re looking at, but then you really get the human element and having these wholesales really tell us the good, the bad, and everything with these funds. So, those meetings, I can’t put the emphasis on how important they are.

Matthew Peck: Well, let me build on a little bit because I mentioned sort of day to day. So, what’s our calendar? What was like the investment calendar? So, if we have all these different portfolios, is it kind of a constant thing? Every portfolio is getting looked at simultaneously? Is it sequential where you go one at a time? I mean, how do you organize or how is SHP’s investment calendar organized?

William Malagodi: Yeah, it’s also part of the process in the philosophy. So, we have a very balanced approach through our calendar. So, we first start off with the general, the allocation reviews, our equity to fixed income. So, we’ll start by looking at whatever right now maybe the hotter topic on the macro side. So, then we’re really breaking down each of those, we’ll call them sleeves or portions of the portfolio. So, we start broad and then we kind of will break it down. So, the meetings will start with what’s going on with equities and fixed income, or maybe there’s a specific topic, but then we can really just split that off and then kind of go into more of a– or how would I say this? Like, take the portfolios and then release blanket for a second, but take them into a point where we can transition them into more of the detailed information, where it’s fun. So, we’ll take the portfolios from that point of view where it’s fixed income and equity, and then we can break it down to fund selection.

So, every week, we’re kind of like a tiered approach. It’s the allocation, then it’s managers, and then maybe it’s more of a theme. So, it’s like we’re looking at it in a very different catered approach. We meet once a week. So, every week, we are kind of looking at a different area where we could improve the portfolio because every time we look at portfolios and review them now, I don’t want to look at that the same way every time. We want to look at them differently. So, one, we will look at this way, then we’ll look at it maybe sector based and then fund. So, we cater it that way. And then once we have that little structure based off of every month, we’re making sure every portfolio is getting that tender love and care. Is it being rebalanced? Did we make a fund, a change in this portfolio? Does it need to be applied to everyone? So, we’re really looking at it. Once we do one thing from one portfolio, does it need to be applied across?

So, every week, we’re going over topics that we’re looking at, and then seeing how it impacts every portfolio. And then the schedule just kind of wraps when the changes get implied and then we kind of go into the next topic. So, it’s very much like a business cycle if you want to call it. We start from the review process, the allocation. And then time to the final execution of it, we just kind of repeat the process. And it can take anywhere from a month to a month and a half. But literally, we’re going through every portfolio over one to two months, which is constantly looking at them to making sure all these changes are being applied.

Matthew Peck: Well, as I say, and then we have our big quarterly reviews. Now, for a lot of our listeners that you’re aware that I’ll do my kind of hack job, market webinar, I apologize, I’m getting better. Everybody, I’m getting better. I’m working at my craft to be able to communicate and not have so many verbal tics. Thank you all for bearing with me on my own journey of being a better communicator. I’ve said that a lot, right? But then we have our quarterly big events. And what I mean by that is we have our quarterly market update, which for any of our listeners, do get a piece of that.

But then we also every quarterly do what’s called an attribution analysis. Now, an attribution analysis speaks specifically to performance. And that’s when we’re able to take a look at the portfolios themselves to find out what has done poorly or done well. So, tell us, walk people through what an attribution analysis, and I might be a little bit nerdy there, I apologize for everybody. I should have warned everybody this was going to be someone of a nerdier session, but what is an attribution analysis?

William Malagodi: Yes, it can be nerdy, but it’s also very important.

Matthew Peck: It’s okay. Embrace it. It’s okay, it’s okay.

William Malagodi: You can embrace the inner nerd, but this also ties into kind of philosophy process and then right into the performance piece because it goes into the philosophy and process that we’re using Morningstar. It’s our major tool, and that’s where we store our portfolios. So, if we’re not doing one of these traditional reviews, we can also generate reports off our portfolios to see. One of the big terms that you might hear out there is benchmarking. So, we’re allowed to use that. We apply our benchmarks and then we just do simple comparisons. So, from there within Morningstar, there is a tool called attribution analysis.

So, two of our analysts here at SHP, Dave and Cam, this is what they are running on a quarterly basis. So, this also kind of all ties back a tiny bit to manager selection, Matt. So, Morningstar allows this function of attribution analysis to show every part of our portfolio, whether it’s, think about it as not to use, maybe say attribution, but every component to our portfolio, we’re being graded on it almost. So, it’s our internal tool to keep ourselves in check. Did we make the right call with this manager during that time? Did we exit at the right time? Did we not allocate enough to a certain asset class? This will tell us all of that. Did we overpay for an active manager?

So, this report, again, yes, maybe not nerdy, Matt, but there’s a lot of information in here that can provide us a lot of great direction to guide our portfolios for the future, and then to maybe plan for others, like macro situations that arise coming up. So, this report is, again, a lot of data, but it allows us to really keep ourselves in check and keeps ourselves honest when we maybe made a bad call and then pat ourselves on the back when we made a really good call, and then, hey, we made a good call, but we need to start planning on our exit strategy. So, this tool, we had to be careful with it because there are certain things where there’s a human element of when to time certain exits or entries. But this tool allows us and get the conversation going, so we’re not behind.

We’re talking about this, hey, look at this fund is performing well, maybe we should start looking, we’d exit it. So, this report and this tool is like, I wouldn’t call it the backbone, but this helps us really make a lot of these decisions, and then we spread it out afterwards, then going into the investment committee meetings or then going into the asset manager reviews with the Fidelity’s, the JPMorgan’s of the world. So, this report itself maybe isn’t talked about a lot with the clients and some of the advisors, but our team, the investment committee, this is our everyday document that we want to be looking at.

Matthew Peck: Right. Or another way to put it for all of the listeners, it’s our report card. It’s like what did we do right? What did we do wrong? Did we get our allocation right? Did we pick growth rather than value or blend or international? Were we properly allocated? Yes or no? And did we choose the right managers? Yes or no? And I love it because it really boils that down. And as I mentioned, we do so quarterly because we don’t necessarily want to look at this on a day to day because you want to let certain trends play out because, I mean, it’s not like we’re going to be jumping from fun to fun on a daily basis. But it’s so great because we can shine a light on our own how we’re doing performance-wise, and then make adjustments and make calls.

And I love how you mentioned that. Sometimes when we’re doing things well, actually, that’s a contrarian indicator, right? If we’re doing things well, ooh, that might be a good chance to sell that position rather than adding to it, so then we can have that by whole trim type of conversations when it comes to each individual holding. And I think at the end of the day, too, all this adds up, whether it’s the people, the philosophy, the process, performance, etc., is all adding up to making sure that the product that the eventual advisor has, right? So, all of the advisors of SHP Financial, when they are putting together the financial plan for the client, they know that they’re pulling from the shelf, something that is highly researched, highly detailed, which is so thorough.

Well, all the due diligence was done so that then when they eventually present it to a client of SHP, that client may have no clue. Now, frankly, I’ll sometimes say the advisor might not understand how much work goes behind these things and not to throw shade, but I think when you’re in it every single day, you sometimes lose track of again how much work goes behind putting together. What my opinion is just world-class portfolios for the advisors of SHP to present and to have in their clients for their financial plan based on their associated risks, income needs, etc.

So, before I let you go, though, Bill, all right, so now you clock out, the whistle blows at 5:00, 5:30. So, now, you leave work. What are we doing at home? Are we going home and watching CNBC? Or are we trying to be like, “You know what? I don’t want to have anything to do with CNBC or any other market information source. I’m going to do this”?

William Malagodi: Right now, Taylor Swift is big in our house with my two girls, and our record goes on. And we’re a music family. We like to rock out quite a bit.

Matthew Peck: Oh, we hear this, but what’s your favorite Taylor Swift song?

William Malagodi: The three and a half hour Eras Tour that’s on Netflix. My daughters absolutely love it, and it will consume a day.

Matthew Peck: Well, as I say, All Too Well. So, you must know All Too Well. The 10-minute version is very big in the Peck household.

William Malagodi: Yes, yes, they like that song too. They haven’t yet found a song they don’t like by her. So, yes, lucky me.

Matthew Peck: Yeah. We did a road trip up to Maine with my 13-year-old and just– yeah, she, I mean, Taylor Swift has a very prolific, large library, and yeah, three and a half hours up there. Didn’t have any break to her Taylor the entire way. She accompanied us all the way up there. So, I know, I wouldn’t even call it a pain. I would be just more like, because she’s good, she’s good.

William Malagodi: But I did the other day drop a little Bohemian Rhapsody for the girls and they were excited from that. So, I’m making small strides. Small strides. And they’re in their musical library.

Matthew Peck: Queen is good. Queen will stand the test of time. So, I think they both will be. So, the guys are good. Awesome, man. Well, thank you so much again for joining and helping to, as I said, really show all of our listeners some of the inner workings of SHP, but just the amount of work that goes into it. And so, that they know if you are a client of SHP, you know that whether it’s a conservative portfolio or an aggressive portfolio or a growth or alternatives, whatever, whatever we’re doing for the client, that it is, there’s so much work that goes behind it before it eventually comes to you and know that that work continues. We’re not going to stop that work because we’re going to continue to look at it and continue to make improvements and continue to get better day after day so that your experience, your retirement is as good as it can be and that you don’t need to worry about all this stuff because Bill, myself, Cam, Dave, Mike, everyone else that’s behind the scenes, we’re toiling day after day to make sure that you do not have to and you can enjoy the retirement. So, thank you all for listening. Stay tuned for next time.